15 replies to this topic

[Terran]

Fellow Anglers,

Read this story in The Chronicle Herald (Aug. 26, 2011) this morning, and felt it was important to share it with you.


Scientist: Ottawa demanded silence
Salmon collapse off limits to media
By The Canadian Press
Fri, Aug 26 - 4:55 AM
VANCOUVER — A fisheries scientist says she believes senior officials close to the prime minister prevented her from talking to the media about her research into the 2009 sockeye salmon collapse in B.C.

Kristi Miller told a federal inquiry Thursday that she learned about the gag order only through the inquiry and believes officials with the Department of Firsheries and Oceans were OK with her giving interviews about the publication of her article in the journal Science.

"I learned only through the inquiry process that the decision of not allowing me to speak to the press after the Science paper came out came out of the Privy Council Office and not from DFO," she said.

"I had permission to speak from the deputy minister and, I believe, the minister’s office so what I was not aware as a scientist is at what level these decisions are made."

Miller testified she believes it would have been useful to speak to the media after the article’s publication to let them know what scientists knew and didn’t know.

The federal government did not dispute Miller’s suggestion that it was the Privy Council Office, which serves the prime minister, that refused to allow Miller to talk to media.

"Dr. Miller’s testimony was thorough, extensive and speaks for itself," said Dimitri Soudas, communications director at the Prime Minister’s Office in an email to The Canadian Press. "Her study and transcripts of her testimony is publicly available."

"The government will not interfere with Justice Cohen’s work."

Miller testified senior officials had not prevented her from publishing work but stopped her from talking to the public because of the inquiry.

The inquiry heard Tuesday that Miller is working on trying to figure out whether the parvovirus is linked to the Fraser River sockeye collapse.

The virus has never before been found in fish and her work is considered groundbreaking.

Tim Leadem, legal counsel for the Conservation Coalition, a group of seven different organizations, said he doesn’t know why officials close to the prime minister would become involved.

"Do we know the reason why the PCO needs to get involved at this level of spinning what stories should be emanating from a scientific journal publication?" he asked.

"I think those questions should be put to the prime minister to find out why his hands and his reach of his office has to go down to this level."

Miller told the inquiry her lab gets outside money from, among others, the Pacific Salmon Commission, which helps keep 11 people employed.


Our Environmentally conscious Federal government has decided that a "gag order" should be part of an open policy on dealing with an environmental issue? This doesn't surprise me.

Although, this is a West Coast story, I think it speaks volumes about how our government handles issues that they would rather sweep under the rug. I wonder how much of this practice has affected our concerns? Atlantic Salmon? Environmental impacts?

Just thought it was worth bringing to the attention of our members. I'm curious how others feel about this issue.

Terran

[kunuk]

The current federal government is not concerned with anything but power and making the wealthy more so.
Asking the Cons a question is completely useless, they only answer questions that they have provided to sicophants and debating is not something they can do.
They don't care for the evironment at all.

Kunuk

[Xlobsterman]

FISHERIES MANAGEMENT DFO STYLE!!!!!!

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxpVhXRRFo4"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=AxpVhXRRFo4[/url]

[Terran]

Hey Anglers,

I find it telling, the number of people who have viewed this and chose NOT to post any sort of comment. Perfect reflection of why OUR Government gets away with this CRAP.

Kunuk and X, thanks for taking the time to make a statement.

X - loved the satirical video . In this case, though, it seems DFO wasn't to blame, but the Privy Council. Still, government trying to control and micro-manage while scr**ing the huddled, voiceless masses.

Terran

[Save SAR]

Terran, on 26 August 2011 - 11:57 AM, said:

Hey Anglers,

I find it telling, the number of people who have viewed this and chose NOT to post any sort of comment. Perfect reflection of why OUR Government gets away with this CRAP.

Kunuk and X, thanks for taking the time to make a statement.

X - loved the satirical video . In this case, though, it seems DFO wasn't to blame, but the Privy Council. Still, government trying to control and micro-manage while scr**ing the huddled, voiceless masses.

Terran

It's called neo-fascist dictatorship. Sad to say, but that's what we are living in. I spoke truth to power and was hauled out of my office like a criminal. This is why - Youtube clip

[Terran]

Save SAR, on 26 August 2011 - 02:51 PM, said:

It's called neo-fascist dictatorship. Sad to say, but that's what we are living in. I spoke truth to power and was hauled out of my office like a criminal. This is why - Youtube clip

Hi Save SAR,

First of all, welcome to the site. This site is first and foremost a Forum for the discussion of all things fishing. Sadly, our "governments" play more of a role in the (mis)management of our sport than we sometimes care to admit. Strangely enough, many are effected, but few choose to act.

I started a topic about the budget cuts in this forum. I surmised, in my post in that topic, that the cuts to employees, attributed to attrition, would leave gaps and weaknesses in the DFO. Apparently, the definition of attrition is different in the Government Dictionary. As are the definitions of many other terms.

It is unfortunate that many will bi**h and moan about the actions of the governments (all levels), but few will accept the responsibility of taking action. Many accept the status quo and prefer to accept the "what can I do?" approach. Truly frustrating.

I watched your videos and applaud the fact that you choose to act. Interesting approach.

What happened to the concept of Elected Representation?

Terran

[Save SAR]

Terran, on 26 August 2011 - 08:09 PM, said:

Hi Save SAR,

First of all, welcome to the site...

What happened to the concept of Elected Representation?

Terran

Thanks for the welcoming note... I'll definitely be checking out the info around the site when I get back to having more time to fish.
I joined today mainly to contribute to the threads you had in place. Contrary to my comment above, I'm not normally one to bash government. I do however think that a lot of people who spend time on the water are going to be affected by this latest round of cuts. There are a lot more cuts to come this fall as well. I can't comment on them right now because they are not yet public knowledge and I'd be in conflict with public service ethics and values. I will definitely pop in from time to time.
It seems once elected, the elected elect to represent themselves.

[Perry]

I really dont know which is worse the media or the Government. I suspect the link to acquaculture is suspected but not proven....yet! The research and the results belong to the people who fund it and I suspect the Government has forgotten who they work for. I dont trust the media as well! Look at the frenzy they are creating over this hurricane. Remember when the weather was reported and predicted without all the hype. I expect someone on the news will ask a survey question are you scared of hurricanes/sharks/coyotes/bears/Revenue Canada/ PMO's office.
The Gov. cannot prevent published papers being public knowledge. They can prevent speculation on unpublished and unproven theories. I belive the link between dimished wild salmon stocks and aquaculture is real. The problem is who will provide the scientific evidence. It can only be one adjency DFO and that is a problem as they support the aquaculture. For me I believe the research scientists involved will resist political interference but if the Gov. reduces funding for research in this area that would be a major problem. It is a concern that that might be how the Gov. will control the speed and quality of the necessary research to make the link.
In the last year I asked a question on studies being done on the tidal power projects in the Minas Basin. I was told by the researchers that they would have to get permission from the Private Corperation and Private Company to give me any answer. Those that fund the studies control the release of content of the research. I trust the researchers and their findings but what the Companies and Corperations release to the public will only reflect what they want the public to know.
The confusion for me is DFO is mandated to manage and enhance fish stocks. They are not mandated to support sea cage acquculture. The BNA act was around long before anyone raised a salmon in a sea cage!

[basindawg]

Perry, on 26 August 2011 - 10:52 PM, said:

I really dont know which is worse the media or the Government. I suspect the link to acquaculture is suspected but not proven....yet! The research and the results belong to the people who fund it and I suspect the Government has forgotten who they work for. I dont trust the media as well! Look at the frenzy they are creating over this hurricane. Remember when the weather was reported and predicted without all the hype. I expect someone on the news will ask a survey question are you scared of hurricanes/sharks/coyotes/bears/Revenue Canada/ PMO's office.
The Gov. cannot prevent published papers being public knowledge. They can prevent speculation on unpublished and unproven theories. I belive the link between dimished wild salmon stocks and aquaculture is real. The problem is who will provide the scientific evidence. It can only be one adjency DFO and that is a problem as they support the aquaculture. For me I believe the research scientists involved will resist political interference but if the Gov. reduces funding for research in this area that would be a major problem. It is a concern that that might be how the Gov. will control the speed and quality of the necessary research to make the link.
In the last year I asked a question on studies being done on the tidal power projects in the Minas Basin. I was told by the researchers that they would have to get permission from the Private Corperation and Private Company to give me any answer. Those that fund the studies control the release of content of the research. I trust the researchers and their findings but what the Companies and Corperations release to the public will only reflect what they want the public to know.
The confusion for me is DFO is mandated to manage and enhance fish stocks. They are not mandated to support sea cage acquculture. The BNA act was around long before anyone raised a salmon in a sea cage!

excellant points! I for one am not a pro-government fella. There is no such thing as government by the people for the people, no real representation of the people. MLAs and MPs are forced to spew the party line and follow set party lines. I know that many very good people within DFO and DNR are very effectivly shut-down and shut up if what they try to do goes against senior buracracy. If someone wants to climb the government ladder they must obey or become stagnant in the "organization". There's probably a great deal of real scientific information regarding our natural resources that the public will never see because of funding and contractual rules. If government does fund research it can control who can access the information. It's always been money talks and protect big business, that's not going to change anytime soon. If government has to choose between providing resources for business ( $$$, jobs, economy) and providing resource management for recreational folks which do you think will be given the nod ? The media is in the business of selling hype - thus the hysteria over weather and other "ordeals" that we should be used to. That's my rant for today - now I'm pi&^&ed off!

[Terran]

Basindawg & Perry,

Excellent posts.

Perry, as you state, the media has become the "business of hysteria". Ratings mean dollars and nothing draws the ratings like sensationalizing the news for the huddled masses to absorb catatonically. Media is big business.

As for the governments control of information regarding research, in this case they decided to issue a "gag order" on information regarding a published article in the journal "Science".

"Miller testified she believes it would have been useful to speak to the media after the article’s publication to let them know what scientists knew and didn’t know."

Wonder why the government didn't want this information public?

There is nothing that scares government more than the thought of the huddled masses becoming informed and rising up to champion a cause. This is why the Freedom of Information Act is neither FREE nor easily accessable.

How often does the government only ACT on an issue after it is made embarassingly public? Case in point, a news story in todays paper regarding the closure of almost all the water-quality monitoring stations in the Northwest Territories. (If interested read PM restores water monitors - The Chronicle Herald) Would this have been accomplished had our glorious leader not been embarrassed and put on the spot?

We do have the power to make change! The powers that be know that, and in turn try to control that power by manipulation and mis-information (or complete silencing of information). We are also pitted against each other by having vested interests made to appear to be in conflict. They sit back as we fight amongst ourselves.

It all makes sense if you look at the motivations behind it.

Terran

[basindawg]

Terran, on 27 August 2011 - 08:35 AM, said:

Basindawg & Perry,

Excellent posts.

Perry, as you state, the media has become the "business of hysteria". Ratings mean dollars and nothing draws the ratings like sensationalizing the news for the huddled masses to absorb catatonically. Media is big business.

As for the governments control of information regarding research, in this case they decided to issue a "gag order" on information regarding a published article in the journal "Science".

"Miller testified she believes it would have been useful to speak to the media after the article’s publication to let them know what scientists knew and didn’t know."

Wonder why the government didn't want this information public?

There is nothing that scares government more than the thought of the huddled masses becoming informed and rising up to champion a cause. This is why the Freedom of Information Act is neither FREE nor easily accessable.

How often does the government only ACT on an issue after it is made embarassingly public? Case in point, a news story in todays paper regarding the closure of almost all the water-quality monitoring stations in the Northwest Territories. (If interested read PM restores water monitors - The Chronicle Herald) Would this have been accomplished had our glorious leader not been embarrassed and put on the spot?

We do have the power to make change! The powers that be know that, and in turn try to control that power by manipulation and mis-information (or complete silencing of information). We are also pitted against each other by having vested interests made to appear to be in conflict. They sit back as we fight amongst ourselves.

It all makes sense if you look at the motivations behind it.

Terran

Terran, it's a nice thought that we can actually make change but how do we go about it? I think we would have to, somehow, elect ALL MLAs, MPs who we KNOW to be truely representatives of the people, completly change how the political system works so that our collective needs can be truely met by those representatives in government and have a set of tools at our disposal to remove from government any representatives who do not actually represent the unwashed masses. There should be a system of FAIR representation where the interests of business AND recreationists/conservationists can be addressed but most importantly is a system of real management to ensure the survival of natural resources. I don't see that happening any time soon so if you want to lead the revolt you can sign me up for your rebel forces and I'll be right behind you!

[girlfisher]

kunuk, on 26 August 2011 - 08:42 AM, said:

The current federal government is not concerned with anything but power and making the wealthy more so.
Asking the Cons a question is completely useless, they only answer questions that they have provided to sicophants and debating is not something they can do.
They don't care for the evironment at all.

Kunuk

what else can I say couldn't agree more

[Terran]

basindawg, on 27 August 2011 - 09:24 AM, said:

Terran, it's a nice thought that we can actually make change but how do we go about it? I think we would have to, somehow, elect ALL MLAs, MPs who we KNOW to be truely representatives of the people, completly change how the political system works so that our collective needs can be truely met by those representatives in government and have a set of tools at our disposal to remove from government any representatives who do not actually represent the unwashed masses. There should be a system of FAIR representation where the interests of business AND recreationists/conservationists can be addressed but most importantly is a system of real management to ensure the survival of natural resources. I don't see that happening any time soon so if you want to lead the revolt you can sign me up for your rebel forces and I'll be right behind you!

Hi Basindawg,

Alas, I fear the WAR is unwinnable. Our system of Government WAS set up originally so that it might accomplish the many items you state. But, for decades,the "unwashed masses" have gradually allowed the balances of power to shift and collapse. We, the people,(forgive the Yankee sounding statement) have through inaction, laziness and our own lack of care, allowed the power to shift (unassaulted) from the Elected Representation, it was supposed to be, to Elected Domination.

That said, there are many Battles that may be fought, and infact, some may be won. You see, they (the government) are not used to having to justify their actions. They think we don't care and they know that. They certainly don't like it when we draw attention to their ineptitudes. They like to deal in darkness. They keep us in the dark and try to control any avenue that may shine light on their REAL actions and motivations.

There is power in numbers. The more the numbers...the more POWER. There are , for instance, 1800 members of this site. These members are focused on a single interest...fishing. The enjoyment and continuation of our sport RELIES on the preservation of the Environment and sadly the Government. Here is the facts. If an issue arises, that threatens OUR interests, we have the numbers to get some attention. A few e-mails might get a little attention, BUT if a third of the members acted, 600 e-mails would definitely draw some attention. Half the membership...even more so.

There are roughly 60,000 licensed Recreational Anglers in Nova Scotia. Many are members of different groups and organizations. Yet, there is NO cohesive voice on issues pertaining to our Sport. Different groups, fight for their own causes with some success. Imagine what might be accomplished if there were a single voice. That would be powerful. That kind of lobby might get things done. Might win some Battles.

An example of just a few making a difference occurred on this site. Reread: Disgusting Striped Bass Abuse. Some battles are worth fighting, and can be won.

I'm not saying that I expect every member of every group to act. I'm far from delusional. I'm just saying that instead of bit**ing and moaning about how the Government is screwing up this and that...For F**K sakes, lets get off our asses and TRY to make some difference.

Basindawg, I'd be happy to have you join my "Rebel Forces" in the revolt. It'd be nice if we could get a few more recruits. However, I for one will continue to write e-mails and try to make some difference. Those who do nothing have NO right to complain.

Hopefully, change will come when enough people say, "Enough is enough!".

Terran

[basindawg]

Terran, on 02 September 2011 - 08:24 PM, said:

Hi Basindawg,

Alas, I fear the WAR is unwinnable. Our system of Government WAS set up originally so that it might accomplish the many items you state. But, for decades,the "unwashed masses" have gradually allowed the balances of power to shift and collapse. We, the people,(forgive the Yankee sounding statement) have through inaction, laziness and our own lack of care, allowed the power to shift (unassaulted) from the Elected Representation, it was supposed to be, to Elected Domination.

That said, there are many Battles that may be fought, and infact, some may be won. You see, they (the government) are not used to having to justify their actions. They think we don't care and they know that. They certainly don't like it when we draw attention to their ineptitudes. They like to deal in darkness. They keep us in the dark and try to control any avenue that may shine light on their REAL actions and motivations.

There is power in numbers. The more the numbers...the more POWER. There are , for instance, 1800 members of this site. These members are focused on a single interest...fishing. The enjoyment and continuation of our sport RELIES on the preservation of the Environment and sadly the Government. Here is the facts. If an issue arises, that threatens OUR interests, we have the numbers to get some attention. A few e-mails might get a little attention, BUT if a third of the members acted, 600 e-mails would definitely draw some attention. Half the membership...even more so.

There are roughly 60,000 licensed Recreational Anglers in Nova Scotia. Many are members of different groups and organizations. Yet, there is NO cohesive voice on issues pertaining to our Sport. Different groups, fight for their own causes with some success. Imagine what might be accomplished if there were a single voice. That would be powerful. That kind of lobby might get things done. Might win some Battles.

An example of just a few making a difference occurred on this site. Reread: Disgusting Striped Bass Abuse. Some battles are worth fighting, and can be won.

I'm not saying that I expect every member of every group to act. I'm far from delusional. I'm just saying that instead of bit**ing and moaning about how the Government is screwing up this and that...For F**K sakes, lets get off our asses and TRY to make some difference.

Basindawg, I'd be happy to have you join my "Rebel Forces" in the revolt. It'd be nice if we could get a few more recruits. However, I for one will continue to write e-mails and try to make some difference. Those who do nothing have NO right to complain.

Hopefully, change will come when enough people say, "Enough is enough!".

Terran

well said Terran, holey s**t I wouldn't want you comin after me! I've also been fighting many injustices and envionmental issues for many many years, as I know others on this site have as well. I also know, from experience, how extremely difficult it is to bring together groups of people who basically have the same interests but with differing views on how to accomplish their goals. I agree 100% about the mass emails AND letter writing ( that`s an old fashioned thing Munky, where you take a pen and actually write on paper). Those emails and letters spell votes and that`s a very effective way of gaining the attention of our `representatives`` Those emails and letters also need to be CC`d to media, `friendly forces`` and very importantly, official opposition in government IF no desirable reaction or response can be obtained from gov`t reps. I don`t know if the general population will ever get so fed up it will stick its``head out the window and yell `I`m mad as hell and not going to take it anymore! What a great line from Jimmy Stewart! Fighting the good fight against government is a difficult, time consuming and nerve draining ordeal and , unfortunately, not many folks want to get involved - even to send an email or write a letter. Tsk tsk, for shame for shame. Guess it`s up to General Terran and the Peoples`` Liberation Army For The Protection of Democratic Process and Damned Good Fishin. I`m in, gimme a gun I mean pen.

[Terran]

Basindawg,

My friend, you get it! Finally, somebody gets it!

I've been waiting for somebody to actually understand what I've been trying to get across. Soooooo many have posted all the reasons why, " You can't fight government. It can't be done."...B***S**T!

Great to have you onboard. But seriously, we've got to shorten the name. Wouldn't fit on the T-shirts!

Now, lets get recruiting!

"General" Terran

[basindawg]

Terran, on 03 September 2011 - 10:46 AM, said:

Basindawg,

My friend, you get it! Finally, somebody gets it!

I've been waiting for somebody to actually understand what I've been trying to get across. Soooooo many have posted all the reasons why, " You can't fight government. It can't be done."...B***S**T!

Great to have you onboard. But seriously, we've got to shorten the name. Wouldn't fit on the T-shirts!

Now, lets get recruiting!

"General" Terran

I'm sure that most of the guys here get it, they just don't have as big a mouth as me! I like to stir the pot and see what comes up. wife and Munky call me a s*&t disturber, among other things.